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 I feel like 90% of the misunderstandings and re-training that I do with clients and prospects come back to the fact that there are still so many people buying and selling SEO services. Not enough people out there explaining that SEO is dead and that rankings in Google come from ACTUALLY BEING VALUABLE!
Do you still bill your services as "SEO" services? If so, why? If not, What helped you kick the habit? | ||
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Vote:
October 2007 When I talk to business I will call myself and online marketing specialist. I don't ever use the word SEO until they do. It's jargon they usually don't get or care to get.
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4.83 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 online marketing is the umbrella term that covers various marketing elements. SEO, SEM, email, social, affiliate, banner, feed etc etc...
Each of them are a specialized area. It's fine to say that you're an online marketer (if you offer more than one), but while businesses are seeking out expert "organic" search engine marketing - then the term SEO will remain....otherwise - how would clients be able to differentiate between online marketing companies/consultants. and you're right SEO has evolved....being valuable is more important in better Google Rankings (most of the time - let's face it, the algo's not perfect)...but there is also a best practice approach to improving value through structure, reputation, content, organic visibility, authority, etc...which is where the SEO expertise comes in...and accordingly - time spent on these items should be billed as SEO. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Ok, you guys are still killing me.
SEO is not, as Rene says "best practice approach to improving value through structure, reputation, content, organic visibility, authority, etc..." All of those things. IT'S MARKETING PEOPLE. What you currently call SEO is nothing more than a solid, core marketing foundation based on bringing value to a marketplace. SEO is nothing more than the technical aspects of where to put keywords and how to better code a site. It's just standards. In no way does SEO inform content, reputation, or structure. Those things are informed by editorial direction, online PR and usability. GOOD MARKETING IS GOOD SEO. Am I wrong here? Seriousy, everything you guys are saying is SEO is really just doing all those other online marketing things properly. You don't -DO- SEO. You -DO- marketing. If you want good search rankings, you -DO- your marketing across all of your online channels properly. Am I just ranting now or am I starting to make a point on this? Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 There are two core difference's here.
self startup/ solo marketing consultant (such as yourself) - a client comes to you and asks for help. It is much more relevant to call yourself an internet marketer b/c you are doing many things to the site to increase its reach/ sales etc. large corporation entities - generally hire an expert in each practice. so calling the person who manipulates on page factors and off page factors in an attempt to gain more "free" traffic ie. the SEO, a Internet Marketer is pointless. You have to have specific titles for each practice. Does the person who only manipulates Google adwords need to be called the same thing as the person who finds backlinks for the site? Internet Marketing in todays world is extremely complex and it is very difficult to call yourself an expert on all fronts hence the need for specific job titles such as SEO. My 2 cents. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Brian,
I think you nailed it. When it comes to large corps, the need to have a category to fit into is indeed a big deal. They need to tie a job to a goal, and SEO is presently used. In that case, I can see the reasoning, but i still don't like it. I still feel like it cheapens us.
Even in that environment, where I currently spend 4 days/week, SEO is not SEO. As soon as I came in as the SEM expert to turn around a slacking PPC campaign as well as improve their organic search traffic, the first thing I did was modify their design and messaging to help improve conversion rates across the board. Then we tweaked their PPC and scaled it up until we increased the leads/month by almost 500%. Now I am actually creating a lead quality department, a business metrics department and an editorial team as well as reorganizing the entire marketing structure in order to better support their go forward online marketing efforts. I am doing all of this so that they can bring the kind of value to the online marketplace that will help them generate more business, track their marketing success and yes get more organic search engine rankings. Am I an SEO? If you would love to do those same things, are you an SEO? Reply
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4.50 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 I think SEO is here to stay.
There is Online Marketing, and within that there is SEO (free SE traffic), SEM (pad SE traffic), Email Marketing, Social Media Marketing etc etc... Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Other than in Australia (and maybe a few other places), SEO is generally looked on as being part of SEM
I think it could be argued that SEM should be removed as a definition, because it doesn't encompass other aspects of online marketing that cross over such as landing page design, analytics and creating traffic funnels, but SEO is a core skill. You don't ask a PPC expert why a particular site you own doesn't even rank for its own name due to a dodgy redirect. I know a fair bit about some aspects of SEO, but not enough to provide an all encompassing SEO service and at the same time most SMM specialists don't know a thing about lead acquisition and landing page design which might add a huge amount of value to the benefit of any social media campaign. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Andy,
Now were talking. I absolutely agree that fixing the dodgy redirects would require an SEO but would you consider landing page design and lead acquisition part of SEO? I also agree that even the term SEM is limiting. This is a complex field and to encompass it all the term SEO just doesn't cut it anymore. Even SEM doesn't cut it. We are OnLine Marketers. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Clay,
Can't we call that stuff SEM? Search Engine Marketing works. I'm OK with SEM, we get along great.
SEO is a part of that but only the technical side. SEO is a set of standards. Even the tools in the "SEO" world are just competitive intel tools or market research tools. They inform strategy more than anything else. But they inform marketing strategy, The technical stuff is all the same no matter what your strategy is. Can someone back me up here that we need to stop using the term SEO when referring to SEM and Online Marketing? I guess I'm not saying we stop using it all together, we Just need to use it properly. Does anyone agree with my on this. I figured that of all places to raise this question, an online marketing social media site like this would surely muster some supporters. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Adam, Adam, Adam... SEO is not dead. I think you are confusing the more specific term SEO with the more broad "Online Marketing" term. SEO is still a very needed piece of online marketing. We add new products and product lines all the time. Without SEO, the odds of these items getting ranked are greatly decreased. Finding the correct keywords to optimize for, optimizing the title/description tags, creating content that is readable and interesting with just the right amount of keyword density and placement, linking, page naming, etc... It is SEO. Need more proof? Review these links http://www.gooruze.com/articles/65/Testing-Your-Way-to-1-In-Google/ http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors This is the best breakdown I have seen so far. Bookmark it!
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3.00 (Average) Vote:
October 2007 Al,
Can't we, as the industry leaders, do more to help clarify the different aspects of what SEO has become? I am happy with the term SEM, marketing in search engines. No problem. It's the SEO I have issue with. How can we better choose our language and further the industry in a way that more clearly identifies the differences between the technicians and the marketers? The problem starts when a company goes to a technician for strategy. We, as an industry, need to get our ducks in a row on this. Does anyone else feel like the term SEO is clearly no longer relevant to what our industry is doing and no longer descriptive of all that is involved? Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 You can call it what you like Adam, but people are still going to search for SEO. I wouldn't get too hung up on definitions. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 If you are looking for a standard definition, I don't see it happening. I will agree the term SEO is used very loosely, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization and the definitions I found are very broad, but I still feel the term is relevant and do not see the term going anywhere. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 I'm with you Al.
The term in general is fine when applied properly. It's the common usage to describe everything we do under that one umbrella that I am at odds with. 90% of what I do for clients in order to get them better ranked in Google has nothing to do with technical optimization. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 I think as online marketing evolves - yes most businesses will sell a one stop shop "online marketing" but I suspect there will always be a role for specialist SEO skills. Funny we were talking about this today in a planning session for ineedhits. All our marketing is "online marketing" and we have a good all round knowledge of all aspects, but even businesses like ourselves are considering looking for gooru SEO specialists to help strengthen our SEO efforts as the industry becomes intensely competitive. I don't think we'll ever kill the term - I suspect it will become a niche skill set which a select few will charge out handsomely for.
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2.00 (Poor) Vote:
October 2007 But with what successful "SEO" is (Iprefer SEM if you must call it something), the people who are most successfull are the ones who run a technically compliant, value based, Online Marketing Campaign.
All the technical stuff, let's call is something more clearly defined, SES, Search engine standards. then a site can be 100% SES compliant. The rest is just marketing. It's not different than any other direct response marketing. Find people that might be interested in your product and get your message to them. Build resources that they will find valuable and want to ling to and do things that will get you the attention of the press and other heavy hitters. ALso look for strategic partnerships with trusted industry sources. If you do these things well and with a focus of value, the rankings will follow. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Not sure what yer on about mate? I am still calling it SEO Loud and Proud! Certainly it can get confusing for folks with all the Paid Search marketing, Social Media Marketing, article marketing and other forms of traffic aquisition, but SEO is thill the best bang for the buck - there is still Value in SEO. To be honest, SEO pervades most areas of marketing and even site development. This could cause some confusion I suppose. I think too many folks that are doing SEO have a multiple personality disorder as they offer a wide variety of services that aren't actually SEO specifically. SEO isn't dead methinks, it's more about 'what exaclty IS SEO'? The lines are getting blurred. Dave Reply
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2.40 (Poor) Vote:
October 2007 So the thing is that everything you talked about is SEM.
SEM is marketing. Thats what we do. Marketing. SEO is the technical aspect of getting a page indexed and insuring relevance through on page factors. I would love to see the SEO conversation move into a more standards compliance mode and SEM better focus on the actual marketing aspects of value based and intent focused marketing to expand your brand in an online marketplace. That's my primary contention. We need to separate these things because as long as we (online marketers) are confused about it, so will be the rest of the world. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 SEO is just one part of SEM
banner ads PPC SEO Widgets SMM Email marketing all comprsie SEM. a well-rounded SEM plan is necessary in order to be successful Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 Dan,
When did banner ads and Email marketing become SEM? I think that's part of what is so hard for me to be ok with. The term SEO, because doing it properly has grown to incorporate so much, has grown way too big for it's britches and is no longer an accurate term to describe it. See, the definition grows easily for those of us in the trenches, but for those outside of our world, this term means something entirely different. The meaning did not grow for them. Whenever I talk to them and explain what SEO was and that success with Search Engine Marketing now means a full on commitment to do the right things across all of your channels focusing first on the success of each channel and the value of their offering, I have a hard time telling them that that is anything short of an integrative Online marketing Strategy. I almost feel like it would not do the industry justice to keep calling us SEO's. Reply
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 I still think ya lost me Adam, there are certainly distinct areas of operations for internet marketers. Within that resides SEO. I agree that many SEO folks have an identity crises, that maybe where the confusion lies. As Dan outlined, there are many aspects to iMarketing and there is no need to think SEO is dead when it is alive and well. Many of the aspects involved in marketing cross-over into each other's territories, it can be tough to sort out... just let it flow baby... he he
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5.00 (Excellent) Vote:
October 2007 I don't think SEO as it would be properly defined is dead. That aspect of SEM (crawlability, on page optimization, url optimization ) will indeed continue. My contention is just that we use these terms properly and create a common lexicon to more accurately describe what we do. Not just for each other but also for those outside our industry.
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